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Thoughts on Rice
This podcast is for growers, PCAs, consultants, and other industry professionals in the California rice industry. We'll primarily be focusing on the Sacramento Valley and Delta Region of California. The UCCE Rice Farm Advisors aim to deliver extension information relating to the California rice industry.
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Thoughts on Rice
Winged water primrose (Ludwigia decurrens) research efforts with Jens Beets and Whitney Brim-Deforest
Jens Beets (USDA) and Whitney Brim-Deforest (UCCE) sit down to discuss the invasive weed Winged Water Primrose (Ludwigia decurrens) and research efforts to mitigate this weed.
In this episode, Sarah Marsh Janish welcomes back colleagues Dr. Jens Beets (USDA) and Dr. Whitney Brim-Deforest (UCCE) to sit down to discuss the invasive weed Winged Water Primrose (Ludwigia decurrens) and research efforts to mitigate this weed.
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Hello and welcome to Thoughts on Rice, a podcast hosted by the University of California Cooperative Extension Rice Advisors. I'm one of your hosts, Sarah Marsjanish, and I'm a rice farm advisor for Calusa and Yolo Counties.
SPEAKER_02:I'm Whitney Brumde Forest. I'm the Cooperative Extension Rice Advisor for Sutter, Yuba, Placer, and Sacramento Counties.
SPEAKER_04:My name is Luis Espino. I'm the rice farming systems advisor for Butte and Glenn Counties.
SPEAKER_00:I'm Michelle Leinfelder Miles. I'm a farm advisor in the Delta region. I work on all sorts of field crops, grains, and forages, but one of those is rice. And the counties that I cover are San Joaquin, Sacramento, Yolo, Solano, and Contra Costa counties.
SPEAKER_01:Together, the UCCE Rice Farm Advisors seek to provide relevant, topical, research-backed information relating to California rice production. Now I'm excited about today because this is going to be a weed science extraordinaire. Welcoming back Whitney Brimdeforest and Jens Beats. Now it's been about a year since we had Jens on. So for those who don't remember, he's a research ecologist with the USDA Invasive Species and Pollinator Health Unit, a unit whose mission is to develop and transfer integrated biologically based approaches for the management of invasive species and improvement of pollinator health. Now Jens and Whitney are here today to talk about Ludwigia decurrence, aka winged primrose willow, aka winged water primrose, aka well, a lot of other names. So with that, just like to officially welcome back Jens and Whitney. Hi guys, thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_04:Thanks, sir. Glad to be back.
SPEAKER_01:Glad to have you back. Since you're here, I'd love for you to kind of explain a little bit about the history of wingwater primrose. Whitney, can you talk about how we first found this weed and and where we first started seeing it pop up around California rice?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. And I I will admit that I I was not working in rice at the time. So I will do my best. But the first sighting was in 2011. And I actually think that it was identified by I believe Albert Fisher and Jim Eckert at the time with Brenda Gruol, also with the USDA. So they were the sort of first folks that that found it. And I believe Cass Mutters as well, the advisor in Butte County at that time. And after that, it kind of like went off the radar for a while. There was a big flurry, I think, you know, between like 2011 and 2013, and then people kind of forgot about it for a little while. And then in 2016, roughly, there was a change, I think, to the rating by the CDFA. And that's when it sort of popped back up on people's radar again. So and then again, we kind of stopped worrying about it for a few years, it feels like, and now it's popped back up again. So it's just one of those things that we haven't been really consistent about tracking, but we're talking about it again. So it's moving around, and I think that's why we're we'd like to bring it back to the forefront of people's minds.
SPEAKER_01:And Jens, it's not just in rice that we see this weed. We're also seeing it in rice canals. Is that right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So we it's this whole genus is is a problem kind of in the canals and is also a problem in natural areas. But we've been seeing it, especially spoiler alert to some of what we might talk about later. We've been seeing it in the canals, and luckily we haven't seen it in natural this species in the natural areas yet.
SPEAKER_01:That is good. I mean, we're gonna have to keep an eye on that, but so far seems okay. But I kind of want to go back to something you said, Whitney, about the change that CDFA did with its classification system. Can you explain why changing the classification system of this weed brought this weed back up to the forefront of what people were talking about?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Yeah, so it was originally, I think, classified as a Q rating, which basically just means that they don't really know that much about it and they weren't sure of its impact at the time. And then it got changed to an A rating, which basically means that there's some sort of impact on agriculture. And then also a P rated seed pest. And the P rated seed pest part is really what's important for us. The A rating doesn't involve any sort of quarantining or anything if it's found in a in a field, but the P that means that if you had it in a seed field, that field couldn't be harvested for seed. It could still be harvested for for consumption, but not for seed. So that's really the the big problem for rice growers, especially since a lot of our seed production is up in Bute County. So the rice experiment station, there's Buca that's doing research up there, Butte County rice growers, also the Lundbergs is located there. So there's several entities right in that area that are involved somehow in seed production. So it's an important rice growing area for us. And so if it's in seed, we really we really don't want it in there in the seed and then moving around. So that's really what was the big change was the the prohibited seed pest rating.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that has impacts not even just in research, but for those growers who are contracted to grow rice for seed, they're getting an economic premium for that. But if they're not able to harvest for seed and instead have to harvest just for general production, they're taking kind of a loss on that crop, at least what they were expecting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, very much, very much potentially so. And I will say that I've talked to Timothy Blink with CCIA, and the impacts haven't been, you know, huge, but we don't want them to get to the point where it's impacting us as an industry. So important to stay on top of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So one of the reasons that we also want to talk about Ludwigia and in rice fields is how it disperses, because it's a it's really good at being a weed, I think we can agree. Sure. In terms of how it can disperse and how it can proliferate and spread seeds. Uh, would either of you care to talk about uh why Ludwigia is good at being a weed?
SPEAKER_04:One of the ways is that with this uh species, this Ludwigia in particular, its seeds are tiny. I think it averages at half a millimeter in in length and even less in width. So we're talking about a minuscule seed. And uh this kind of goes into a a problem. I'll kind of go off on a tangent. That this species in the genus, the winged primrose, we don't know a ton about it. There is so little research that's been actually done on this one. So some of what we are going off of in our initial, you know, research and and extension and teaching is pulling from other species in this genus, other pr other water primroses. And what we know about the others is that they produce hundreds to thousands of seeds per fruit capsule. And with this one, it may be even higher, just because the seeds are smaller than many of the other seeds in the genus. And it's not just one fruit per per plant. You know, we don't have hard data yet, but estimations are at least 10 flowers for a small plant that's you know two to three feet, and they get taller than that. So yeah, they get they get quite a bit taller than three feet. So we're talking about many flowers, each producing hundreds to thousands of seed, and we're s we haven't done germination tests, so we don't know what how many of those seeds might be viable. But given how fast we're seeing this this spread, well, not fast, but how how widespread it's getting, it probably has a pretty high germination rate. When you have you know thousands of little seeds, it's pretty easy. All it takes is one, you know, one plant to establish in a new part of a canal or a new field. So that's a big problem. And I guess one other little tangent is that other plants in this or other species in this genus, they can also reproduce from fragments. Many other species in this genus, other primroses, can do that because if it's also not just the seed, but a fragment of the plant, if it gets, you know, weed whacked or mowed. If that is another way for spread, we definitely like need to know so that we can come up with the recommendations of what to do and what not to do.
SPEAKER_03:So we did do some of that research, but it was it was not published. There was research to show that it it did respout from both the roots and from the stem like pieces.
SPEAKER_01:I think I read that it was an internal report.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was it was not published in any peer-reviewed journals or anything.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I'll add that a couple of the peer-reviewed papers that you can find on this do mention that they think that fragmentation is, but they don't have sources to that. It's kind of like somebody published an inference and we go from there. So again, we're going off of you know, reports and and stuff like that, which gives us a good starting point, but still leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm. Yeah, and actually, I mean, we don't have any peer-reviewed publications on this, particularly we from California. So we have, you know, posters and things that were, you know, not peer-reviewed, but we have, I guess, you know, anecdotal data at this point in time.
SPEAKER_01:Well, speaking of the other water primroses, there's another problem when it comes to this specific species, in that it can pretty easily be confused with some of the other weeds that we see in the canals, on the rice edges. Can you guys give us some identification tips to help distinguish this specific Ludwigia decurrence from other Ludwigia species or other rice weeds that might look similar?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I can start, I can start off and then feel free to jump in. So, yeah, as you mentioned, the others look very much like it. And the other problem with this entire genus is that, you know, a lot of the characteristics, if you read through a key or even somebody's ID guide, something like so. One of the ways that we identify this plant is that it has four petals and the it's yellow, you know, four-petaled yellow flowers. But other species in the gene, other primroses, they might say, oh, well, it's five, but sometimes four, and sometimes six.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And then the hexapetala, another one of the primroses, it's six, but sometimes five, and sometimes even four. You know, so far we've only seen four petals in this. And I'd say that the petals are a little more rounded and smaller compared to some of the others. But the very, very distinguishable trait that this has is kind of given away in the name. It has a winged stem. Unfortunately, that can be hard to see from far away, but when you go up next to it, it's very obvious that it has a wing on it. The other problem is that this entire genus, the leaf characteristics are almost fluid, which is also part of it grows differently depending on the way it's growing. So they can kind of spread, which is probably what you see when you see these see them in the canals and stuff, is it's kind of like prostrate and spreading across the water, and it gets these really rounded leaves. But when it's growing upright, it gets these more like lance-shaped leaves. With the winged water primrose, we're only seeing, or so far, we're really only seeing these more lance-shaped leaves. And then the other distinguishing characteristic that unfortunately isn't super helpful unless you're up close, is that there's no petioles. There's not that leaf stem-based leaf stalk, which the others in the genus all have to some degree. They all have a petiole, and this one doesn't.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think some of the other rice weeds that people have been confusing it with, so like there's the, you know, all the primrose in the canals, which are usually not in the fields, but in the fields, I've noticed some people are getting it confused with red stem when it's small. So it does kind of look a little bit like red stem. To me, that's probably the most or the most confusing rice weed that we have. But yeah, other than that, it's it's really, I would say the the primrose in the canal that people are getting it confused with.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And we'll have links to uh identification guides and some more explanation in the show notes, just for people who are more audio uh who would like to see some pictures.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I guess one other characteristic is that the winged one doesn't have hairs. And the other one of the other species in the genus Ludwigia hexapetula, it does have hairs on it. So that's kind of another uh like short whitish clear hairs. So it's not like a luscious locks situation, but um you can kind of it looks almost fuzzy at times when it's growing, and this one you do not see that at all.
SPEAKER_01:So I've also seen some old pictures of Ludwigia where this plant is as tall as a picture of cass, I think I've seen, and and cass is what, six foot. So this can get to be a pretty tall weed, right? Is that correct?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I mean, this is again anecdotal, and we don't have you know data collected on this, but I've had some in the field this summer that was taller than me by a lot, and and that was, you know, I'm five three, so at least six inches taller than me that I've seen this year. So it's definitely a very tall plant, especially it seems like when it's growing in a rice field when it's competing with rice. So I haven't seen it get quite as tall on levees, but it in the field it's getting really tall. And that might be a function of like coming through, you know, a flooded field.
SPEAKER_01:So let's talk about how we can control the sweet. So let's first think of it in a rice field setting. We see Ludwigia out there. It's what is our available control option to try and control the sweet?
SPEAKER_03:Well, thankfully, a lot of our granular herbicides do seem to control it. So if it came up in a field, we probably wouldn't even notice it, to be frank. So Serrano works or apparently works, and again, this is data that was collected quite a while ago, so we were redoing some of this. But serrano, bolero, granite are those work quite well. Shark seems to work a little bit or pretty well as well, as well as Sandia. So most of our into the water herbicides. I will say that if you get it when it's bigger, not as many herbicides are are very effective, but if the these are all like as it is germinating at the beginning of the season. So a little bit later, it looks like bolero is really the only effective one. But we're doing some testing with some of the newer herbicides that have been registered since this research was done. And so we'll have some new data coming for folks as well. So that's again into the water granular at the beginning of the season.
SPEAKER_01:And so that's a project that you two are working on together, a uh collaborative project between USDA and UCCE to work on control options for Ludwigia. Would would either of you care to comment on how those trials are going on?
SPEAKER_03:Basically, beginning at the beginning of this past race season, so in 2025, we decided to do a bigger project, Jens and I, on sort of revisiting some of the work that was done previously with Rice Services, and then also with his expertise in aquatics, um, we're gonna have some options for folks that are managing this in canals as well. So we're also working on this in conjunction with Butte County Ag Commissioner's Office, as well as Luis Caspino, who's the Rice Advisor there. And we've kind of put together a task force to look at mapping where it's moved around. And since we previously did this surveying, which I think the last like big official survey was in 2016, the Butte County Ag Commissioner's Office has kind of kept up with it on a limited basis in Butte County, but we wanted to expand and see where else it's moved. So we did that on like a larger scale this year. We have a or had a treat or a trial at the Rice Experiment Station looking at levees. So what's emerging on the levees? So we were doing foliar testing with different herbicides on levee systems. And then Yes and I both have greenhouse trials that are ongoing right now. I'm looking at foliar products as well as into the water herbicides, and he's doing the same. So we should have uh quite a bit of data on efficacy, hopefully by the spring. So for next year, when people are out there looking at what they should be applying, we'll have some new information for folks.
SPEAKER_01:That's rice. Let's talk about canals and non-ag areas. Uh, Jens, can you comment on control of Ludwigia in these areas?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so again, kind of the overarching theme here is that we're dealing with a species that there's not a ton of published research yet on. So we're doing some of this based on labels, which there is some efficacy on, and uh unfortunately slash fortunately, that is at the genus level, so across all primroses. And then there are a few papers on aquatic herbicides with other herbicides or other species in that genus again. So again, these aren't any endorsements of products. This is all based on labels that have this data, or papers in other species in the genus. And so for aquatics registered in California, we have a masmox, glyphosate, combination of glyphosate and amazmox, triclopeer, and then fluoreperoxaben benzyl. So, you know, those are some of our oxen mimic herbicides and some of our ALS herbicides, as well as broadly or broad spectrums. And then kind of going into the papers that have touched on other species in the genus, there's a few that mention those again. So those saying glyphosate, amazimox, fluorperoxin, and benzy. Also, there's some papers showing efficacy with Amazapyr and triclopeer, as well as 2,4D. And triclopeer is kind of our bridge between rice and aquatics right now. Interestingly, as I've been doing some lit reviews, there's a paper on Panox. Resistance in Indonesia. So that's definitely something we're, you know, always kind of in the background of minds when you're looking at efficacy data. I also just kind of like a little fun fact. I found this really cool paper actually last night where they looked at fungal pathogens. So not a nervous setting. They looked at fungal pathogens on this species. It was from the late 70s. So they actually call it it's the old genus name, Juiceia, Juicissa, something I'm bad at Latin. It's the old genus name, but it is still very obviously the same plant and mentions it as winged primrose. So I have some colleagues that do kind of fungus and bacterial biocontrol. So, you know, I might might see if they might be interested in this at all, but there is that biocontrol for that, you know, in the past. I don't think it was ever brought to scale. Unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting, interesting. Maybe a new avenue for research. Yeah. I do want to kind of bring us back to this partnership with the County Ad Commissioners to scout Ludwigia. Can you guys explain a bit about how this partnership, this task force came about, and what some of those projects look like this year? Uh Whitney, would you care to start us off?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Yeah, so the well, the I will say the Butte County Ad Commissioner's Office has been working with UC in the past. So it's not a necessarily a new partnership, but I guess the restart of this, really looking at Ludwig again, kind of happened last year. Part of that was due to the re-establishment of the weed management area in Butte County. So the weed management areas are sort of entities established in partnership with CDFA across the state. And so some of the counties have them active, some don't. So Butte County, I believe, wasn't really active. And so as part of re-invigorating it, the Butte County Add Commissioner's Office picked some weeds that they wanted to hone in on. And this one was one of the ones that they that they really wanted to take another look at. So I believe Luis and Jens and I kind of met with them and started talking about like how we could be in partnership and what sort of things we could look at with them. So the mapping came out of that. And then we've kind of hit some roadblocks with control. And maybe Jens can touch on that a little bit more. But and you know, allowing us to to go out and just spray randomly, that hasn't really come to fruition. But at least the mapping part and then working together as a group to get more information out to folks. So that'll be coming in the next year. And then partway, I should mention partway through this past season, one of our employees, Troy Clark, was out surveying actually for another weed and found this Aluba Gia Decurrence Wingwater Promos in Placer County, which was a new sighting for us. We thought it was only in View County, and so we did involve Placer County and Commissioner's Office as well. And so they've joined us in talking about this weed. And in the next year we'll we'll kind of be making a bigger push to figure out exactly where it is. I did a small preliminary survey with the irrigation district there, and we found it was pretty widespread, and we are not exactly sure how it got over there, but it is pretty far up the canal system in Plaster County. So again, that'll be something that we'll be talking about again a little bit more next year once we once we have more data and more time to go survey again.
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah, just to kind of touch on what Whitney said about trying to run again to roadblocks with control with these aquatic systems, there's extra layers of regulation and restrictions on herbicides due to irrigate, you know, not just irrigation restrictions, but we also have to follow endangered species compliance and permitting there. So it is a slow process to try to find which agencies this falls under their kind of umbrella for treatment as well as mandating, you know, control of weeds. So it's just a a Tetris game of finding, you know, who does what where. And it's not always the fastest process.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And you're you're dealing with public and private lands, there's an added layer there. There's just a lot to consider with this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, for sure. And I I will add that like, you know, we've where we found it, we've tried to do some hand roguing where where we could, but that is not a you know a sustainable long-term option. But for at least for rice growers, they have current options that can work for them. It's more for like management and canal systems that we're kind of stuck. But the rice growers, you know, they have the granular herbicides that they can use, and then triclopedia grandstand is pretty much the the go-to for us for right now for spraying on levees or on around, you know, edges of fields. Or if you have a canal on your property, you should be allowed to spray, but check with the air commissioner's office first, but you should be allowed to spray on your property. So again, there are some tools available, but for us going out and surveying and just randomly spraying, that's a that's a little bit of a hurdle at this point in time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a little bit trickier for us on that end. With that, is there anything you two would like to add on to this?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'll just say that one of the big concerns with this particular weed, and Yans can chime in too, is that really we don't want it moving into natural areas. It could become a big problem if it got into some of our preserves and things like this. So that's why we're trying to contain it as much as possible. We really don't want it moving into the wildlife areas. So again, like maybe it's not as big of an issue found in rice field. It's you know, low impacts on yields in canals for sure. It can clog up canals, I would say, if it's if it's really thick in canal systems. But the other issue is really the moving into wildlife areas.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I think you know, we're we're at a good opportunity for kind of that early response part of detection early or early detection rapid response. And we're we're in that sweet spot still of actually being able to do some containment. And yeah, as Whitney mentioned, if it gets into some of these natural areas, becomes even more spread, broad spread in irrigation systems, then then we have a problem. And if it were to get into the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, then we get even more complicated because of the state agencies and federal agencies that would have to be taking care of it in the legal defined delta. So yeah, we we have an opportunity here to do some containment and we're we're jumping on that.
SPEAKER_01:That's optimism. I like to hear that. Yeah, this is a this is a good point to get this information out there because there's still a chance, I think, that we can help prevent this further spread. All right, guys, with that, thank you so much. Is there anything either of you would like to promote? Any events, any upcoming news, or any any resources you want to point them towards?
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna be talking about this project at the Rice Winter Grower meetings in January. So I will be touching on preliminary data there. And then I think Jens and I were planning to meet with some of the ad commissioner's office to spread the word about ID and just continued scouting. So we'll be doing some meetings in the winter with the Rice the Rice counties about about Ludwigia. But beyond that, I think we're the hope is that we'll have some data and information for people in the spring.
SPEAKER_01:With that, if people want to reach out to either of you, do you think you could share a contact method for them?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, for me, it's my my email, which is just my first name, a period, and a last name, my last name at USDA.gov. I'm sure Sarah can add that into the podcast description somehow. Yeah, email's the easiest way for for me these days.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, and folks can reach me at the UCC E Seta Yuba office. Our phone number is 530-822-7515.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you coming on. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, thanks for having us, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01:The time will be from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. and lunch is included. All are welcome for this meeting. We are soliciting feedback, experiences, and opinions about rotating rice with tomatoes, with a focus on drip irrigating rice. As lunch is included, we would like to encourage people to register for this event in advance. The registration form will be available in the show notes, as well as available at the UC Rice website, which is agronomy-rice.ucdavis.edu. Hope to see you there on December 12th, 2025, at the UCCE Ubacetter office 142 Garden Highway A, Ubis City, California from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. We've also got a bunch of save the dates coming up, so bear with me as I read through these. We're gonna call these save the dates because we are still finalizing the locations for these meetings, but once we have that information, it will be available on our UC Rice website. We have announced the dates for our UCCE Winter Grower meetings. These are five meetings across a stretch of three days. Two of the days will have two meetings, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and the final day will have just one meeting. So the first set of meetings will be the Richvale and Willows meetings, and those will be Wednesday, January 21st, 2026. The next day, January 22nd, 2026, which is a Thursday, will be the Calusa and Yubacity meeting. The final day of our meetings will be Woodland, January 23rd, 2026. As a reminder, do not go to every single one of these, pick one, whichever one's the most convenient for you, and attend that. Hope to see you there. And as a reminder, as we firm up locations, that information will be available on our UC Rice website as well as sent out in our mailing lists. We also have some events that are further out in our calendar, and one is the rice production workshop, which will take place March 18th and 19th, 2026 at the Lundbergs in Richvale. This is a two-day workshop and registration will be required. This is a meeting that's devoted to the basics of rice production. Our final Save the Date will be the Rice Quality Workshop, which will take place July 30th, 2026. As a reminder, if you're interested in learning more about any of these events or save the dates, they will all be posted on our UC Rice website, which is once again agronomy-rice.ucdavis.edu. For more information about these and other upcoming events, feel free to check out our resources, which include the UC Rice blog and the UC Agronomy Rice website. In terms of other resources you might want to take advantage of, you can also look at our newsletters, which include Rice Briefs, which covers Clusiolo, Rice Notes, which covers Ubisutter, Rice Leaf, which covers Butte and Glen, and Field Notes, which covers rice in the Delta region of California. Thanks for listening to Thoughts on Rice, a University of California Cooperative Extension podcast from the University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources. You can find out more about this podcast on our website, thoughtsonrice.buzzsprout.com. We'd love to hear from you. Whether it's from using our text link in the show notes, a survey submission in our feedback form, also in the show notes, or in a comment or rating on your podcast streaming service of choice. We are excited to announce that after several months of trying, we are finally on YouTube. So if that is your podcast streaming service of choice, you can now listen to us on YouTube. You can also email us with any comments, questions, or concerns at smarsh at ucanr.edo. For almost all of us, rice harvest is finished. Fields are flooding up, and the migratory waterfowl are beginning to arrive. Remember, like the growers like to say, have a rice life. Mention of an agrochemical does not constitute a recommendation, merely the sharing of research findings. Always follow the label, the label is the law. Find out more at ipm.ucanr.edu. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own, and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of the University of California. The material and information presented here is for general purposes only. The University of California name and all forms and abbreviations are the property of its owner, and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
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